Robert F. Kennedy Jr. grilled on CDC director’s firing, vaccines and more

Lawmakers grilled Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about the firing of the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and his changes in federal vaccine policies.

Health & Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced tough questions at a Senate Finance Committee hearing Thursday.

Kennedy testified before the Senate Finance Committee Thursday. Much of the most intense criticism came from Democrats, and some called for Kennedy to step down. But some Republicans also raised questions about Kennedy’s actions.

Lawmakers pressed Kennedy about changes in guidance on vaccines, including COVID-19 shots, and said they are worried about reduced access.

Sen. Ron Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon, said Kennedy should resign or be fired by President Trump.

“I don't think Robert Kennedy should be within a million miles of this job,” Wyden said.

“Republicans on the committee had a chance to prevent the public health train wreck that Mr. Kennedy has engineered. Everyone voted for him. It is in the country's best interest that Robert Kennedy step down, and if he doesn't, Donald Trump should fire him, before more people are hurt,” Wyden said.

CDC turmoil

Kennedy faced questions on the ouster of Susan Monarez as the CDC’s director a week ago, less than a month after winning Senate confirmation for the job. Monarez, who was Trump’s nominee, said she was pushed out because she wouldn’t rubber-stamp unscientific directives or fire top officials.

Wyden cited the dismissal of Monarez in his opening remarks, saying, “He tried to fire the Senate-approved CDC director after she chose the truth, over what I consider his delusions.”

In the hearing, Kennedy rejected Monarez’s description of her dismissal and told senators that she was lying. He told senators that Monarez was fired because she was not trustworthy.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a Democrat from Massachusetts, asked Kennedy if the CDC director was fired because she refused to sign off on changes to the childhood vaccine schedule. Kennedy said he told her she had to resign when she indicated she could no longer be trusted.

In a heated exchange, Kennedy also pointed out that Warren voted against Monarez’s confirmation as CDC director. Warren acknowledged that vote.

“I was afraid she was going to bend the knee to you and Donald Trump, and it looks like she didn't bend the knee, so you fired her,” Warren said. “Look, you're putting America's babies' health at risk. America's seniors’ health at risk, all Americans’ health at risk, and you should resign.”

Sen. Thom Tillis, a Republican from North Carolina, said he wanted more information about how Monarez went from being an unimpeachable figure to so untrustworthy that she had to be fired. Tillis also said that he hoped Kennedy would get a better sense of whether her successor is trustworthy before receiving Senate confirmation.

In his testimony, Kennedy said the shakeup at the CDC was necessary to restore trust in the agency. He also said that he never met Monarez without being in the presence of others, who can affirm his account of his conversations.

In an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal that was published Thursday, Monarez said Kennedy undermined the CDC’s work and expertise.

“Once trusted experts are removed and advisory bodies are stacked, the results are predetermined. That isn't reform. It is sabotage,” she wrote.

In the wake of her ouster, three other top CDC officials resigned in protest.

Healthcare organizations, including the American Medical Society, the American Nurses Association, and others, have said they’re alarmed at the turmoil in the CDC and worried that the agency’s ability to protect the public is being threatened.

• Read more: Health groups sue to block vaccine policy changes

Vaccine confusion

Sen. John Barrasso, a Wyoming Republican and a physician, pointed to the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. He said he’s worried about growing public confusion in light of Kennedy’s actions.

“I'm a doctor. Vaccines work. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned. The public has seen measles outbreaks, leadership of the National Institute of Health questioning the use of mRNA vaccines, the recently confirmed director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention fired. Americans don't know who to rely on,” Barrasso said.

Kennedy faced questioning over recent vaccine guidance, including changes in recommendations for COVID-19 vaccines for the fall and winter. The health department isn’t recommending COVID vaccines for adults under 65 and children, unless they have underlying health conditions that could expose them to more complications. The Food & Drug Administration has approved COVID-19 shots for all seniors.

Warren and other lawmakers said Kennedy is reneging on earlier pledges to ensure that vaccines would be available to all Americans who want them.

Kennedy said that the vaccines aren’t recommended for healthy people, but also said, “Most Americans will be able to get it from their pharmacy.”

But Warren countered, “If you don't recommend, then the consequence of that in many states is that you can't walk into a pharmacy and get one. It means insurance companies don't have to cover the $200 or so cost.”

CVS and Walgreens have said that their pharmacies will require a prescription for COVID-19 vaccines in some states, CBS News and others have reported.

• Read more: Public health has taken a ‘huge black eye’ with federal cuts

‘Denying people vaccine’

Sen. Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican and a physician, noted the difficulty and confusion surrounding access to the vaccines. Cassidy cast a critical vote that helped assure Kennedy’s confirmation as health secretary.

At the hearing, Cassidy said, “Effectively, we're denying people vaccine.”

In response, Kennedy said, “You’re wrong.”

Wyden also pointed to Kennedy’s actions contradicting the health secretary’s vow to ensure all Americans could get access to vaccines if they desire.

“That was clearly not true,” Wyden said. “His unprecedented unilateral actions to restrict access to Covid vaccines … that alone proves that.”

Tillis also pointed to Kennedy’s earlier statements in congressional hearings that he would “do nothing that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking vaccines.”

“There seem to be several reports that would seem to refute that,” Tillis said, who asked Kennedy to respond to that and other questions in writing.

Cassidy also weighed in on Kennedy’s firing of all 17 members of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices in June. He said that replacements installed on the committee have been paid to serve as expert witnesses in suits against vaccine manufacturers, and he asked Kennedy if that was a conflict of interest.

Kennedy said it could be a bias, but “that bias, if disclosed, is okay.”

Cassidy and other committee members criticized the health department’s recent cancellation of $500 million in mRNA vaccine projects. He noted that mRNA technology was critical to the development of COVID-19 vaccines in Operation Warp Speed, which Cassidy hailed as an achievement under President Trump worthy of the Nobel Prize.

“It seems like an incredible waste of money,” Cassidy said of the cancellation of the contracts.

Defending his record

Kennedy repeatedly highlighted accomplishments under his leadership of the Department of Health & Human Services, which he characterized as unprecedented.

“We have been the busiest, most proactive administration in HHS history,” Kennedy said.

“We at HHS are enacting a once-in-a-generation shift from a sick care system to a true health care system that tackles the root causes of chronic disease,” he said.

Countering criticisms that he is acting without sufficient transparency, Kennedy said that he’s aiming to be open with the American people. He condemned the CDC as failing “miserably” during the COVID-19 pandemic, and also described the agency as the most corrupt within the health department, and possibly all of the government.

“We need bold, competent, creative new leadership at CDC, people able and willing to charge a new course,” Kennedy said.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, pointed to the growing criticism of leading medical groups such as the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics over vaccine policies under Kennedy. The health secretary argued that those groups and many of his critics are too aligned with the pharmaceutical industry.

Sanders said that’s a familiar response from Kennedy in regard to his critics.

“You've got the entire medical community, you've got the AMA representing hundreds of thousands of doctors, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Public Health Association, all of these organizations are telling us that Covid vaccine and vaccines in general are safe and effective. You are casting doubt on that,” Sanders said.

Sen. Raphael Warnock, a Georgia Democrat, also called for Kennedy to step down or for President Trump to fire him. He pointed to Kennedy’s previous testimony that he didn’t oppose vaccines, and a podcast appearance where he questioned the safety of all vaccines.

Pointing to Kennedy’s previous comments, Warnock asked, “When were you lying, sir? When you told this committee that you were not anti-vax, or when you told Americans that there's no safe and effective vaccine?”

Kennedy answered, “Both things are true.”